Silvia Club of NSW

anything in the intake will be a restrictor to a certain degree. but in my case it isnt that big, if it was, then the car wouldnt make the power it did.

Excellent power Ernest !! congratulations...

Just out of interest, what is this TSI ecu your using ?? is this like the daughterboard Impakt has designed ? excuse my ignorance if im the only one in the dark here

Cheers

Dan

_________________
there is no rainy suicide seat...

Prove to me its a huge pressure loss at a flow rate the same as that of say the max flow rate of a ray hall special -0031 turbo and I'll believe you. Proving this doesn't mean quoting lines from zoom either.

Cheers Dan

It's not a full ECU nor is it a piggy back. It works with the standard ECU to warm the car up, idle it etc... and when the car starts making boost, TSI takes over using it's own maps.

Below outlines it better, thanks to Ian and Ben.

> >The stock computer still controls idle, knock control, open/closed loop,
> >and correction mapping. TSI does fuel and ignition tuning.
> >
> >Fuel tuning is via direct injector control to either reduce or increase
> >fuel flow (using the TSI fuel map). The TSI is a hybrid engine
> >management system since it can either alter the factory injector pulse
> >duration or independently control the fuel injectors (standalone mode).
> >It can switch between fuel or standalone modes (with the switch over
> >point user set).
> >
> >The main advantage of direct injector control compared to airflow meter
> >sensor "tuning" is whenever a fuel map change is made, the ignition
> >timing doesn't change (unlike what happens on <insert piggy back system
> >here>). There are obvious advantages in this, and it makes for much
> >easier and quicker tuning.
> >
> >Another advantage compared to "airflow meter tuning" is that the TSI
> >isn't limited to what the maximum or minimum map value is inside the
> >factory computer, ie the TSI can control the injector to do 0-100% duty
> >cycle, and likewise retard or advance the timing up to 50 degrees. The
> >airflow meter voltage is not altered to do fuel or ignition tuning.
> >
> >TSI can control low or high resistance injectors that are
> >same/larger/smaller(!) flow as the factory injectors (standard Nissan
> >injectors are high resistance).
> >
> >For its load reference the TSI uses an internal MAP sensor (+22psi, or
> >optional external +30PSI sensor). This provides an accurate load
> >reference even after the factory AFM has maxed out its voltage. TSI
> >needs the factory airflow meter still since the factory computer still
> >needs it, but it has capability to run any amount of boost over the
> >standard ECU without causing fuel injector cut-out.
> >
> >TSI: 17 load points every 500rpm up to 10,000rpm (20x17 load points)
> >each for fuel, ignition, and standalone maps.
> >
> >Diagnostic wise it can datalog parameters like injector duration, duty
> >cycle, manifold pressure, air:fuel ratio, engine speed, throttle
> >position, airflow meter voltage. Which makes it easy to see if injectors
> >are getting close to maximum duty cycle.
> >
> >For more information see the unigroup website which outlines the TSI
> >features:
> >http://www.unigroup.com.au/TSI.htm

Who's to say it won't make an extra 10-20kw at the same boost if the AFM was removed?

I'll do some vacuum measurements on a stock AFM in the very near future so we'll have some idea of the difference it makes.

As utenvy said - it's not about whether or not the restriction makes it impossible to make more power, it's about the difference it makes to the existing setup.
Why have a huge turbo, with fat piping / cooler, pod filter, etc if you're still going to have a small hole in the middle somewhere that all the air has to flow through?

Do you think that it'd make the same power with the factory airbox?
The difference between the factory panel filter and an aftermarket one, or even none at all is tiny (l6a6w6s6 dynoed a 0.3kw difference between a dirty factory one, and no filter at all) whereas a pod filter makes quite a large difference.
The AFM is more of a restriction than the factory airbox...

I've seen comparisons which say that you can gain worthwhile power by changing the AFM even on an N/A engine, which will be flowing a hell of a lot less air than a high output turbo engine.

No one's saying that you can't make the power you did without changing the AFM, but I certainly would have changed it long ago considering how easy and cheap it is to do so. It almost seems like a waste of a lot of the other mods to choke it like that...

_________________
The Engine Whisperer - fixer of things

jampac, im not the one trying to make the point so ive got nothing to prove. youve illustrated many facts but you still have not pointed out what advantage there is in having a 34mm restriction in the intake.
ive studied hydraulics which teaches you a bit about how medium flows through confined spaces. in order to maintain the same flow rate either side of the AFM, air has to speed up to pass through the restriction which causes friction and heat.

also, autospeed has an article about negative boost gremlins in intakes, which is very informative.

props to NAS77Y on his achievement BTW

how much is the tsi ecu including fitting and dyno tuning??

I need to prove my point?? Ernest's engine with the stock air flow metre has pulled 226rwkw on 15.5psi and you reckon its a restriction. There is no signs that the standard afm was becoming a restriction as the power keeps going up and up. My point has already been proven by hard facts, now if you can show me evidence to the contrary I'll believe you.

Also when did I say there is an advantage of having a 34mm restrictor? The only advantage is that air flow can be directed at a compressor wheel a lot better than that of a larger pipe, but I never said this before, I only said rally cars make over 300hp with 34mm restrictors and a 50mm restriction is double the area of a 34mm restriction.

Around $1595, but call unigroup engineering to confirm.

Well you won't see signs of a restiction unless you take it off and compare...
The AFM wouldn't be a restriction if all the intake piping was 50mm (then the whole system would be a restriction) but it is by definition a restriction if it's smaller than the rest of the intake system.
Also the turbulence caused by the change in diamteters will muck up the flow characteristics of the rest of the pipe.
The stock AFM doesn't even have flared ends to smoothe the flow.

Outboard boat engines are sold in various different power ratings, usually based on the exact same engine with different sized restrictors in the intake to limit power. So you can buy, say, an 8hp engine - remove the restictor and have a 10hp engine. The 8hp one could produce 10hp by keeping the restrictor and running higher compression, more ignition advance, leaner mixures, etc but why would you?

_________________
The Engine Whisperer - fixer of things

in other words you have a vested interest in a system that requires an AFM.



so that was your testing method?
$50 says manometer readings before and after would be different.

Im not saying this ECU setup isnt good, what i want to say is that my AFM never made it into the engine bay.

At 225kw the standard afm wasn't even maxed in voltage since the tsi logged it at 4.8v. The factory wouldn't put in a physical restriction and yet have the meter read under 5 volts. A 50mm internal diameter on the AFM is more then big enough for the power Ernest is making.

Personally i wanted to push 18-20psi into the engine for one run and see it crack the 250rwkw mark. But the customer is boss

Valent

I agree to the whole "less restriction, more power" ideas posted by DumHed. Just look at the Rally cars, 10 years or so ago they were making close to 550HP, now with the pidly 40mm restricters in place they make around 300HP...

Forgot to add, nice power output nevertheless!

I dont want to arguee but i would like to see what power it makes with the AFM removed with the same boost when the afm is installed to see if it makes a difference even if its on a safe boost level

_________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

I would like to add

WHO GIVES A SHIT?????

Geeeeezzz people, the guy wants to leave the AFM on.... Leave him alone.....
He is obviously confident that it makes no difference, why push the subject???

Not jumping down or anything, just my opinion....

BTW Nice result

Unigroup- well done guys

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www.silviansw.com
snezy@silviansw.com
Why Drive When you can drift?????