Silvia Club of NSW

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:16 pm 
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Twin T66
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I am using a Turbosmart Boost-T controller (the el-cheapo controller that has given me the ability to rise from 4.5PSI to 10+ PSI).

Mine was installed by Risking as I had to get other stuff done, and wanted to be sure I was fitting the thing right.

I was told to watch for spiking and other issues, but she's been very reliable for me, only once spiking (but it was a pretty subtantial spike).

I have found that it will let the boost creep ever so slightly in colder periods, at the moment it's 4 full turns in the + direction, and on a nice cold morning it will tend to boost up to 14PSI, but when it's middle of the day, 26+ degrees, she will only boost to 12 - 13PSI, never anything higher.

Personally never tried other styles of Boost control, so cant realy compare anything this side.

B.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:04 pm 
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T51 Hybrid

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badhairdave wrote:
3AM wrote:
mokompri wrote:
BALL & NEEDLE:
===========
a relatively new form of boost control, i picked up my one for ~$30 off ebay, from some guy in australia. i first came across this reading up a post about someone who purchased one and had success on the SAU forums. works on the same principle as the bleed valve by bleeding off air in the wastegates vacuum line to fool the wastegate and increase boost. the difference is that its NOT always bleeding off air like the bleed valve, but only after a user adjustable boost pressure, which is the point where the ball in the valve lifts off its seat and allows air to pass through to the wastegate. this gives much better boost response, as wastegate creep is greatly reduced.


sorry but that is in fact incorrect, it doesnt not bleed air at all.

it restricts the amount of air the wastegate sees untill more pressure is achieved, there is a small hole in the side but that is only to releive pressure that may be trapped behind the ball.


Smacks you across the back of the head.

It isn't a check valve as they only hold boost off the actuator until the set pressure is reached then it dumps all excess through to the actuator and as such does not hold a set max boost (that is still determined by the actuator) but will improve response. I've used this method too.

It isn't a regulator as that allows pressure through up to a set pressure so it does a good job of holding a set max boost but has no affect on response.

The autospeed controller utilised both in series to get better boost response with the ability to set max boost. I found it unstable once under bonnet temps rise.


I never said it was a regulator. Im just stating that it doesnt bleed off any air to the atmosphere, and thats its a variable restriction.

so yeah go smack urself.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:21 pm 
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So what is it? if you are so adamant that it isn't a bleed but you aren't saying it's a reg or check valve?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:56 pm 
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T51 Hybrid

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ball and spring can be classified as an adjustable pressure relief valve or "check valve" or a "gated valve", or as they call them in the UK a "bren device"
but be certain it is NOT a "bleed valve".

so it is infact a check valve, and it will hold a set max boost, as the spring counter acts the boost pressure.

A bleed valve works by lettings the wastegate actuator only see some of the boost, the rest is vented or "bled of" ususally into the atmosphere, a ball and spring device does not.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:51 pm 
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TO4

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:59 pm
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Location: Blacktown, NSW
Car: 180sx
im using a Greddy Profec B S2, excellent boost control all the way to redline, its a bit confusing when you want to change the settings but i leave that to my mechanic, 2 stage boost setting, warning system for major boost spike, highest recorded boost memory, easy instalation

got it early last year and i though it was ok on price, cost about $700 to fit and retune with the new EBC on the dyno

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:28 pm 
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Quad T66
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3AM wrote:
ball and spring can be classified as an adjustable pressure relief valve or "check valve" or a "gated valve", or as they call them in the UK a "bren device"
but be certain it is NOT a "bleed valve".

so it is infact a check valve, and it will hold a set max boost, as the spring counter acts the boost pressure.

A bleed valve works by lettings the wastegate actuator only see some of the boost, the rest is vented or "bled of" ususally into the atmosphere, a ball and spring device does not.


you didnt answer my question though, i didnt say it was classed as a bleed valve, but that it did infact vent to atmosphere when the ball was off its seat.

there is that little vent hole between the ball and actuator, how does this hole not vent air when the valve is flowing? if it is a CLOSED system where there is no air vented to atmosphere as you say, then pressure would eventually equalise on both sides of the ball, and would give wastegate boost levels, is that not true ?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:26 pm 
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yeah sorry you are right in that regard. it does bleed of a small amount once the ball is off its seat, to help stop wastegate creep.

your wording to me came across like it was a bleed valve after a set pressure, where infact upon high pressure, the small bleed is overwhelmed, so the air being bled off has little effect or the amount the wastegate actuator sees.

I apologies again for misunderstanding.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:18 pm 
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Quad T66
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3AM wrote:
yeah sorry you are right in that regard. it does bleed of a small amount once the ball is off its seat, to help stop wastegate creep.

your wording to me came across like it was a bleed valve after a set pressure, where infact upon high pressure, the small bleed is overwhelmed, so the air being bled off has little effect or the amount the wastegate actuator sees.

I apologies again for misunderstanding.


from the way i understand it, the bleed vent/port is a major part of the functioning of the ball and spring valve in controlling boost. its main function is in controlling the pressure between the ball and the actuator and does so in combination with a restriction.

the aim is to reduce the input pressure of the vacuum line so that a lower pressure is seen at the actuator then what actually exists, to give a boost increase.

a bleed valve restricts airflow at one point on the vacuum line and uses a vent/bleed after this point. the vacuum line is segmented by the restriction the valve creates into 2 (pre and post restriction), the segment post restriction has a vent which is constantly flowing air out to atmosphere. so you now have air flowing into the post segment through the restriction at a slowed rate, and at the same time this air is being vented out through the bleed.

as boost/airflow rises it will reach a point where the amount of air flowing through the restriction will overcome the amount that the bleed can flow out into the atmosphere. when this occurs you have a buildup of pressure in the post segment, this will in turn open the wastegate and control boost. but importantly, because air is flowing through at a slowed rate due to the restriction into the post segment and because there is always air being vented out through the bleed, the pressure in the post segment will be lower then in the pre segment, and this is how we get boost levels above the wastegates spring rate.

without the bleed in the post segment, air would flow through the restriction and fill up the post segment and give wastegate levels of boost, because it fills up the confined space.

the ball and spring valve has this same design, but in addition it also has a ball and spring pre the restriction, which causes NO air to flow through until it lifts off its seat, then we have air flowing through the restriction and the above explanation takes over again. the upside of the addition of these things, is that boost pressure builds up later in the post segment and only starts at user definable setting, and so helps greatly in controlling wastegate creep.

with that in mind, i effectively see it working as a bleed valve, because it uses the same design and principle (after the ball is off its seat).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:31 pm 
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Twin T51
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ok... time for a change of posts. :lol:

With the profec B s2 (the new one) and the older one, does anyone know the differences? I'm looking at getting a profec B, and I'm unsure if its worth spending almost double to get the new S2 model over one of the older units?

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:23 pm 
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T51
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after all that I still have absolutely no idea what controller I want to get...

Tossing up between a blitz one and the avcr.

One quick questions that someone might be able to answer. When it says "features include four programmable boost settings" I thought the idea of a boost controller was to just be able to turn a nob and run watever you want? can someone clear this up for me.

Also how can you tune an ecu when you might be running more than one boost, wouldnt changing boost stuff up air/fuel ratios and hense screwing aroud with the tune?

thanks guys


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:04 pm 
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JoELMaN wrote:
Tossing up between a blitz one and the avcr.


I've had both. I much prefer the blitz

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:04 pm 
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Once set up (as in you program the boost levels yourself) you just select the one you want to use at the time.

Tunes are typically based on the load from the airflow meter vs rpm so running a higher boost typically runs through a different area of the map so it doesn't stuff up your tune at all (assuming it is tuned)

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:22 pm 
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T51
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so each boost setting set up on the controller runs a different map on the computer? (power fc in this case)


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:33 pm 
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No, it runs through a different area of the same map as a higher boost will typically correspond to a higher airflow (and so higher afm voltage) at the same revs.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:36 pm 
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T51
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so, if i was to have say 12, 14, 16, 18 psi programmed, they would all have to be programmed on a dyno?

what would happen if i was to run 15psi?

this is confusing :P


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