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 Post subject: Re: Wheels COTY 2007
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:36 pm 
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Scathing wrote:
Leif wrote:
Personally, I don't see how a $60k-$90k mid size can ever be considered seriously as "value for money" in the Australian market...


I dunno. If its good, then its worth it (I haven't read the piece yet, I avoid Wheels as much as possible since their goals in a car are different to mine).

However, if the car's built really well and will last forever then it'd be worth it. Its probably not, since we get raped with import charges and we don't have the economies of scale to justify it.


The thing is, the cost between building a small car and a large car is almost negligible. Its certainly not double, which is why the Euros are pushing "premium hatches" where they can charge $50K+ for an Audi A3, which is the same size as a $20K Corolla. My point is that being "mid size" vs "small size" or "large size" doesn't make it any better value.


I used to dislike Euro cars, thinking they were too expensive for what you were getting. But after living with one and driving a couple, they are just "nicer" cars than their Japanese counterparts. I'm not talking about the sports cars, but for your average Joe who just wants a conveyance....a Euro car is a better place to spend your time.


That's the same feeling i get since I'm selling European cars daily, I'm definitely starting to appreciate them a lot more. Even though I can't afford one! :-?

Also I can understand their good build quality and pleasant ambience inside the European cars.

'You pay for what you get' :P

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:40 pm 
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i believe its 'you get what you pay for' :)

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 Post subject: Re: Wheels COTY 2007
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:09 pm 
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silvia200sx wrote:
That's the same feeling i get since I'm selling European cars daily, I'm definitely starting to appreciate them a lot more. Even though I can't afford one! :-?

Also I can understand their good build quality and pleasant ambience inside the European cars.


Japanese cars are getting more Euro traits (I do like the fact that current Japanese cars have their doors close with the same bank vault-like thunk, with no subsequent rattle or shake, that the Euros have done for over a decade) but they're still playing chase-up in the usability stakes.

Drove a mate's VW Polo GTi recently. I liked how all the switchgear was laid out. I liked the feeling of quality when you sat in it, and interacted with all the touchpoints. I liked the fact that when you brushed the indicator, it blinked 3 times instead of 1 (for lane changes). I liked the fact that the suspension was pretty much sorted, and the thing handled properly stock. Most people only replace the rear sway bar, to dial out the OEM understeer, unless they want to lower the car or get "serious" about driving it quick.

And the engine itself was sweet. Like all Euros it was tuned for midrange drivability rather than top-end grunt. The turbo comes on pretty low in the rev range and holds good flow all the way to the top. If you flash the ECU, with no hardware changes (and so no cop hassles) you pull 40kW and the thing flies.

If I had $30K to spend on a daily driver, this thing would be hard to top. New car warranty, build quality and feel that few Japanese cars in its price range could match, strong performance, and being Euro and not visibily modified its not a cop magnet.

My g/f drove a Mk V Golf recently, and adored the thing. She didn't like it until she actually sat in one and drove it. And she's starting to miss her Mini.


If I wanted to buy a fast, value for money, sports car where driving is the prime function then I'd buy Japanese for sure. But if I was wanting something I could pootle around town in, I'd probably buy Euro these days.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Wheels has had a fairly chequered history of COTY, but they've made dumber choices than this Merc, like the Camira and P78 for example :)
The last Commodore COTY was also fairly much paid for out of an advertising budget it would seem, its not a bad car, but I think it would have been more honest to just win it on it's own merits rather than 12months worth of glossy magazine advertising and cover stories.
(It was about that point I really just stopped buying car mags forever)

If the difference between the Euro cars, the domestic shitters and Jap stuff was even more pronounced it was in the 1970s, a lot of it went unnoticed because people where focusing on other things and the fact a fair few of them where not as powerful or cheap as the Jap or domestics.
However, scratch the surface a bit more and the build quality was far superior and other things which just didn't end up in Jap or ADM markets like my 1971 Peugeot having 4wheel disk brakes and independent suspension didn't appear for at least another decade in most sectors of sedans that where safe, handled and actually stopped. The Mercs from that era where just so far advanced in terms of quality, engineering and everything else that it made you wonder if they where made by martians.
Was sort of a pity when that 504... didn't really "die" sometime until the mid 90's, it just got to the point where it was getting old and I didn't want to throw money at it any more after some speeding bogan in a HQ hit it in the rear drivers side quarter (didn't break anything but it made it plenty uglier)
I suppose I got the last laugh though, he was a tow job, I drove home, f'kn tough car! :o

New Mercedes cars I'm not that thrilled with in terms of build quality, but they do have a distinct edge about them which the other markets tend to take their leads from.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:16 pm 
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MK wrote:

If the difference between the Euro cars, the domestic shitters and Jap stuff was even more pronounced it was in the 1970s, a lot of it went unnoticed because people where focusing on other things and the fact a fair few of them where not as powerful or cheap as the Jap or domestics.
However, scratch the surface a bit more and the build quality was far superior and other things which just didn't end up in Jap or ADM markets like my 1971 Peugeot having 4wheel disk brakes and independent suspension didn't appear for at least another decade in most sectors of sedans that where safe, handled and actually stopped. The Mercs from that era where just so far advanced in terms of quality, engineering and everything else that it made you wonder if they where made by martians.
Was sort of a pity when that 504... didn't really "die" sometime until the mid 90's, it just got to the point where it was getting old and I didn't want to throw money at it any more after some speeding bogan in a HQ hit it in the rear drivers side quarter (didn't break anything but it made it plenty uglier)
I suppose I got the last laugh though, he was a tow job, I drove home, f'kn tough car! :o

New Mercedes cars I'm not that thrilled with in terms of build quality, but they do have a distinct edge about them which the other markets tend to take their leads from.


It makes sense back in the old days, the Mercs and Peugeots were well ahead in terms of tecnology like your examples above. I think the reason for that is that Mecedes and Peugeots respectively were the first manufacturers to produce motor cars.

Think of the heritage and experience they both possess...

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 Post subject: Re: Wheels COTY 2007
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:35 pm 
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Scathing wrote:
Drove a mate's VW Polo GTi recently. I liked how all the switchgear was laid out. I liked the feeling of quality when you sat in it, and interacted with all the touchpoints. I liked the fact that when you brushed the indicator, it blinked 3 times instead of 1 (for lane changes). I liked the fact that the suspension was pretty much sorted, and the thing handled properly stock. Most people only replace the rear sway bar, to dial out the OEM understeer, unless they want to lower the car or get "serious" about driving it quick.

And the engine itself was sweet. Like all Euros it was tuned for midrange drivability rather than top-end grunt. The turbo comes on pretty low in the rev range and holds good flow all the way to the top. If you flash the ECU, with no hardware changes (and so no cop hassles) you pull 40kW and the thing flies.

If I had $30K to spend on a daily driver, this thing would be hard to top. New car warranty, build quality and feel that few Japanese cars in its price range could match, strong performance, and being Euro and not visibily modified its not a cop magnet.



I definitely agree with you about the Polo GTi, if I had the extra money I'd buy the Golf GTi (must colour code the rear bumper), an excellent car.

A couple of years ago, I was quite sad to part with my Barina SRi (Opel Corsa), my first and only Euro car at the moment, but very good value for money for a daily driver. To pay the same comparison of a Japanese car, you'd need to trick up the suspension to handle as well as the SRi. :o

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:07 pm 
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i dunno, the SRi doesnt handle ALL that well. yeah is good, and its very firm, but damn it leans over on hard cornering. and before you ask, yes ive driven one a lot, my sister-in-law owns one and i drive it a lot and it gets a hard time :P

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:59 pm 
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ZEi20T wrote:

i believe its 'you get what you pay for'

i dunno, the SRi doesnt handle ALL that well. yeah is good, and its very firm, but damn it leans over on hard cornering. and before you ask, yes ive driven one a lot, my sister-in-law owns one and i drive it a lot and it gets a hard time :P


Yup you are right ' You get what you pay for', but you know what I meant, thanks for re-arranging the words for me Zei :)

Oh alright, but there's not much Jap cars you can buy new that handle like the SRi for the 25k mark in 2005, I felt it was a good package. Typical Euro with good mid range and short wheelbase!

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