Silvia Club of NSW

Why drive when you can drift?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 9:04 pm 
power to weight is not the issue here. this is a pay out forum for v8's and there are v8's that handle just as well as any four or six or rotary or v10 or v12 or v16 or h16. for handling it's not just the engine/transmission that makes for a fun car around corners.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:02 pm 
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T28 Hybrid

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I think you'll have trouble finding a modern turbo engine that is more reponsive that a pre-pollution v8. lol


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:08 pm 
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T28 Hybrid

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Looks like what we are saying id finally getting through, Hamish. Notice how Mayhem is selling his silvia? obviously upgrading to a REAL car.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:50 am 
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Takumi
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On 2002-02-14 20:02, XYGTHO wrote:
I think you'll have trouble finding a modern turbo engine that is more reponsive that a pre-pollution v8. lol


LOL indeed!
so the several hundred kilos of rotating and reciprocating mass doesn't reduced resposiveness?
Also, I never said anything about turbo..

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:30 am 
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T28

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On 2002-02-14 14:17, XYGTHO wrote:
Once you bring out the kW/L argument, you really have hit the bottom of the barrel... that's like a guy with a small dick claiming to be able to give more pleasure per inch of cock.
kW per litre oesnt mtter.
kW and Nm are what matters, and I'll be damned if ANY 4cl engine has a broader usable power band than ANY V8... you can't bend the laws of physics.

I don't see Silvias taking off smoothly and quickly and then hitting 170kph in the same gear.

I don't agree. KW/L and NM/L are the correct way of measuring power output of a engine, and yes some small engines have the broad range of usable power that large capacity engines have. (No I haven't hit the bottom of the barrel) Pre pollution cars I believe don't have responsiveness. They simply didn't have that kind of technology. 4cyl or V8 etc.

Smooth take off. F***n wake up. My S15 is as smooth as most other cars on take off. Very linear. Read most of the top motoring journos and you will be told the same thing. ooh and my S15 will accelerate in 6th gear at 70kmh at 1600rpm all the way to it's end without to much drama. Sure there is lag, but not becuase of the turbo. Any engine at high gear and low revs will be the same. My brother had a VP Clubsport 180KW woopie do. At high gear and low revs it was the same laggy feel. only difference was that my S15 will spool up when under load at about 2000rpm and then take of quite nicley, where as the VP Clubby would be slow, but linear all the way, which was frustrating in a way really (felt lazy). You may be interested to know that most journos criticise the crap gearing of the new HSV's becuase they won't pull in 6th from anythin under 110. Basically a cruise only gear, despite the fact that it has all this usable power and torque that you religiously talk about. Fuck this gives me the shits. What is it with the V8 crowd always talking numbers of KW but never Kg of weight.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:36 am 
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Takumi
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coz they only want to do burnouts and be quick off the line. Most don't really have much interest in actual driving, from a skill perspective, or from a feel perspective. Big ugly heavy cars aren't inspiring to drive, so people don't bother learning how to.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:15 pm 
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T28

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Further from my last thread, I am gettin fuckin annoyed with this kind of attitude from the V8 crowd. Don't get me wrong, I love the V8 tourers etc, but hate the attitude from the the V8 crowd such as that of XYGTHO.
No substitute for cubic inches, nothin like a V8, blah blah blah. U like V8's, good for fuckin you, I bet you mum is proud!!! Companies like Chrysler and GM made that stupid slogan up, becuase the only way they could get numbers out of engine in the olddays was to go big. Fact is that hasn't changed for these companies. They marketed this slogan, as an excuse for there shit technology. Look at GM and that GenIII they brag about. Lets make a new engine from the ground up, but continue to use old design principles. These companies should get there act together and try adopting some tech in there engine designs. Yet bogans like yourself support them... Look at the crticism the GenIIIgets for being peaky. Seems to me that they had to stretch it a bit to get those magic 300kw number. why becuase to the V8 crowd numbers like these sell. Witness the numbers game between HSV and tickford. Tickford is shit becuase less power than HSV etc. It's all just a numbers game.

V8's have no less potential than a 4cyl. You still have to do quite a bit of work to get the numbers out of them.

Gone are the days where 4cyl didn't last and turbos were unreliable. These days it seems that the 4cyl, and turbos are strong reliable. Technology changed this. something that designers of most V8's should incorproate. XYGTHO maybe you should Look up technology up in the dictionary. Tech-nol-ogy. T-E-C-H-N-O-L-O-G-Y, can you say that, or has driving those lazy big engines made you a tad slow.

I care not for your V8 ramblings. I don't do the same to you guys. Please stop preaching your V8 RULZ MAN attitude upon me. I copped this shit at school for years, and it didn't change me, even after having a V8 in the family for a few years. In fact I think it gives me a good point for judgement as I have come from the other side, and quite frankly, until manufactureres start developing decent V8 engines, and nestle them in a good chassis etc, them I might think about going back, but until then I am happy to do people driving large capacity engines in my humble Pulsar SSS or S15 Silvia with it's small milk and juice engine.

S-H-I-T, THIS ATTITUE PISSES ME OF.

nuf said.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:51 pm 
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Quad T88
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I say drive what what makes you happy, but there is no better feeling than leaving a V8 for dead at the lights while still using about 1/4 of the petrol.
In todays day and age where petrol costs as much as what it does, us 4's will be laughing all the way to the bowser.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:03 pm 
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T28 Hybrid

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On 2002-02-15 08:30, DANSSS wrote:
Quote:

I don't agree. KW/L and NM/L are the correct way of measuring power output of a engine, and yes some small engines have the broad range of usable power that large capacity engines have.

---> Ah, yeah, name one.

(No I haven't hit the bottom of the barrel) Pre pollution cars I believe don't have responsiveness. They simply didn't have that kind of technology. 4cyl or V8 etc.

---> this is the crowning glory of your folly. The only way I could possibly believe that you would make this statment is that you have never driven or even BEEN IN a pre-pollution v8. The reason why they have that low torque and responsiveness is exactly BECAUSE they HAVEN'T got all that technology.... ie they dont have all that pollution gear on them which, I assure you, kills the low end of a motor.

Smooth take off. F***n wake up. My S15 is as smooth as most other cars on take off. Very linear. Read most of the top motoring journos and you will be told the same thing. ooh and my S15 will accelerate in 6th gear at 70kmh at 1600rpm all the way to it's end without to much drama. Sure there is lag, but not becuase of the turbo. Any engine at high gear and low revs will be the same.

Again I will disagree.... I would bet any money that my engine makes the same power at 1500rpm as yours makes at 5000.

My brother had a VP Clubsport 180KW woopie do. At high gear and low revs it was the same laggy feel.

--->Yes, that is becuase the clubbie has all the pollution gear and hence has a shit bottom end.

only difference was that my S15 will spool up when under load at about 2000rpm and then take of quite nicley, where as the VP Clubby would be slow, but linear all the way, which was frustrating in a way really (felt lazy). You may be interested to know that most journos criticise the crap gearing of the new HSV's becuase they won't pull in 6th from anythin under 110. Basically a cruise only gear, despite the fact that it has all this usable power and torque that you religiously talk about. Fuck this gives me the shits. What is it with the V8 crowd always talking numbers of KW but never Kg of weight.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:39 pm 
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Hey XR W16, u forgot it. When it comes down to it we want and like our cars for completely different things. Eg. the 8 boys wanna run 1/4's. We wanna thrash round corners and tracks but still be able to mix it on the straights. Now u can compare the Ferraris and what not but when it comes down to it our cars are great value for money and perform quite well. Eg. a reckon i could hussle the 180 round Wakefield quicker than XY, and the 1/4 to but eventually our cars will be finished and he might run quicker 1/4's but be lacking on the track, however the 180 will be a track car that can run 1/4's relatively fast - hopefully 11's in a year depending on finances. Well this arguement will wage for a while so go nuts fellas, but i can appreciate most performance cars without the bullshit. Another 2 cents....

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 4:58 pm 
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T28

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XYGTHO -
We are obvioulsy not going to aggree with each other. I can accept that, I don't mind some friendly rivalry. Your right I can't give you an example of a small engine with a broad power band, but I am sure that there are many that are, I believe it is called VVTi help this a litle. My mums OET (overpriced euro trash) vectra is pretty dam drivable for a 2.2l auto 4 cyl, but haven't seen the dyno charts for the car, so can't argue this point without better evidence that what I get from feeling the car.

Yes, I have driven / been in quite a few older cars. My old neighbour builds hotrods and took me for a spin in his worked HQ 4 door GTS 350. Had balls alright, but revved a litle slow and really didn't sound as good at low revs as it did at higher revs. Nature of the engine I guess, so I can't hold that against it. Nevertheless, it wasn't the most responsive car around. you booted it and sure you heard the noises etc, but didn't get that really jerky responsivenes that you get with modern cars, 4 6 8 etc.

I think old cars are not as smooth and refined as new cars, but that's my opinion, and sur that you probably have others against it.

anyway my point is that I don't mind V8s, like I said I am a big fan of any Ford team in the V8 supercars. IH8HSV, if you haven't already guessed. I just don't like the attittude of the V8 boys always baging out 4cyl saying that there shit and slow etc. Then they get beaten by some of us 4cyl boys and then have to whinge that "But we have turbo, not fair". well you guys have large capacity, but you don't usually hear us whinge about the unfairness of that (not me anyway). that's why it is so sweet when I do people in the Pulsar SSS because it is a small engine and not a turbo and has been known to do the occasional(not all) SS commy and XR falc, so no excuses from my beaten opponents. No Turbo's or big capacity engine here.

I am only dishing out on you, as has been dished out on me for the last few years. Maybe this is why I linger on my feelings towards you V8 boys. I am sure you wouldn't like it if you copped the same as I did.

thats fine I take in my stride and let my cars do all the talking / hitting back for me. Revenge is a dish best served cold.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:12 pm 
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T28

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[quote]
On 2002-02-15 13:39, QIK180 wrote:
Hey XR W16, u forgot it. When it comes down to it we want and like our cars for completely different things. Eg. the 8 boys wanna run 1/4's. We wanna thrash round corners and tracks but still be able to mix it on the straights. Now u can compare the Ferraris and what not but when it comes down to it our cars are great value for money and perform quite well. Eg. a reckon i could hussle the 180 round Wakefield quicker than XY, and the 1/4 to but eventually our cars will be finished and he might run quicker 1/4's but be lacking on the track, however the 180 will be a track car that can run 1/4's relatively fast - hopefully 11's in a year depending on finances. Well this arguement will wage for a while so go nuts fellas, but i can appreciate most performance cars without the bullshit. Another 2 cents....

Rohan, you probably will be quicker. I race against a modded XW XY whatever fairmont, and he has trouble going through the whole day without pulling out due to heat, brakes, etc. His car has the power, but needs to be sorted out a lot better for corners etc before he can use all the power. I am actually a little quicker than him on the track even at eastern creek which suits high horse power cars. He has done heaps with suspension and has all the trick diff with disc brakes conversion etc, but still sorting the car out. So If I can out perform that car, I would imagine that with some competent driving, your QIK180 could expect to beat XYGTHO, especially on the smaller tighter circuits.
Believe it though this falcs has some pretty serious gear under the bonnet. has over 7g's in receipts for mods done to the 351. I think XYGTHO would be impressed with this, even I am. He will be quick when he has sorted more of the car out.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:14 pm 
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Twin T78
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All i am hearin right now is "Jerry Jerry Jerry" . But seriously valid points Dan am on your side.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 10:19 pm 
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T28 Hybrid

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well, put it this way QIK180, my car will get 11's with a little head work and a new torque convertor, so I expect you will be playing lots of catchup with your manual small capacity turbo, which has about about the pulling power of my mum's festiva below 3000rpm.

As Henry Ford said, it's dangerous to drive fast around corners.

Personally, I think people who drive fast around corners out on the open puplic road are socially irresponsible. Haven't you ever seen the statistics? 90% of open road fatality crashes happen on corners.

I mean, I could make my mum's festiva go fast around a corner if I didnt hit the brakes, but I don't think it will ever pull 10's at the track. The meaning of the word 'performance' was changed by car manufacturers in the late 70's, because cars were no longer capable of the same straight line acceleration ue to pollution controls - they changed the meaning to 'handles well' because they didnt have to compromise this aspect of a car's design. So who is the big car companies' lacky?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:08 pm 
if you want value for money in a race car why don't you buy a vb commodore and race that in the local holden series. the car would cost roughly 12000 to setup and would not require much more upkeep than any other car and you'd have an organised safe environment in which to test your abilities against others.
if you want value for money in a road car then buy a camry as they hold there value are cheap to keep, but don't come to me and tell me that just because your import cars younger than mine that it offers better value for money.
you may make it up at the pump but everywhere else you guys aren't even in the race. i'd love to compare insurance quotes with you guys as i Know that mine is about the same as most small cars.
as for pre pollution cars being less responsive your example is that of a hq gts 350. well sorry but that car was built from july 1971. that is after the onset in 1970 of adr's that govern pollution control. the big difference is that there is a dirty great lump that that car and most cars globally have in the cylinder head. this inhibits airflow and is the reason that power went down by 25hp in one year and progessively got worse until the vs commodore.
your brothers vp clubsport is not the best after emissions vehicle to have sampled as holden had real problems getting the 304/308 to work with unleaded fuel(the vl v8 only had 135kw at the flywyheel). at the time both local manufacturers were generous with their power outputs because they had to be to keep people buying these models long enough for them to complete development.
as for revenge personally i have nothing against any engine as they all have their niche in society but i do believe that if your going to argue for your engine that all of you should stop thinking in such narrow terms. none of your arguments seem to be based on any technical merit but only on a desire to see if you can put shit on two guys that don't fit in to the exact mould of this group.
the smoothness issue can be settled very simply. if you have a turbo on an engine that has less than three litres then lag is going to happen. the simnple fact is that in a straught line off the line the more air you suck in at the start the better the efficiency achieved. with a turbo it needs time to spool up and therefore needs more time to do the same job as a comparable v8. if you want forced induction off the line then go to a supercharger or n20 as these are instant.


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