Silvia Club of NSW

Why drive when you can drift?
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:16 pm 
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Twin T66
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 am
Posts: 1218
Location: North Sydney, NSW
Car: 1988 Nissan Silvia Ks
I've been pissed off about this for almost three years now...

Here are some excerpts from conversations I've had with people at the RTA Exemptions Unit. This folks are the bureaucrats you apply to if you want to drive a turbocharged vehicle (even a Volvo or a Saab), because we all know a turbo equals HIGH SPEED BRO!

What pisses me off most about this 'unit' is that my fucken taxes are paying for these oxygen thieves to do nothing.

"I'm calling to check on the status of an application I made almost two months ago. I haven't received anything in the mail."
-"I'll get *name removed* to give you a call back tomorrow, as he isn't in the office at the moment."

...one week later...

"I'm calling again because I want to check whether or not my application was approved or denied."
-"Well uh, lemme look up your file, and uh, I'll give you a call back."

....one hour later...

-"Well, mate, there is a note here saying your application was denied."
"On what grounds?"
-"Well, um, the tribunal decided it was a high performance vehicle."
"It is a 1.8L turbocharged car, with an automatic transmission. It has 125kw, and no modifications. I wrote a letter affirming all of this with my application. I also stated how there are other vehicles in my family with more power, yet are legal to drive. Why is this so?"
-"Um, you know, I don't know, you can appeal if you want."
*silence*
"Do I have to pay a fee again to appeal the decision?"
-"Yes, you do."

Weeks later, I decided to call the unit again to see if I could speak to someone with half a brain.

"Hi, I'm calling with an enquiry: if there is a car which isn't on your list of banned vehicles, yet has a turbocharger, is it legal for me to drive it?"
-"No, you will still need to apply for an exemption. What car is it?"
"Well, I'm looking at a few various models. Generally what would make a turbocharged car exempt?"
-"Typically, we can grant exemptions for cars with less than 100kw/1000kg."
"I applied previously for a vehicle which I have now had to sell, and it had less power than that. Why wasn't I granted an exemption?"
-"Was it modified?"
"No, completely stock standard."
-"I don't know."

If you wish to speak to these fuckers directly, I have their contact details (which the RTA doesn't give out).

General email: exemptions_unit@rta.nsw.gov.au

Or contact the guy who never seems to be at work:
Aaron Youngman
Adjudicator
Exemptions and POI Section
Ph - 8837 0962
Fax - 8837 0048
Email - aaron_youngman@rta.nsw.gov.au


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:37 pm 
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T28
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 11:11 am
Posts: 35
Car: ECR33
1. buy a car without a turbo
2. live happily ever after
3. profit

Seriously, these laws are effective for the most part in reducing the number of fooly sick P platers in turbo jap cars wrapping themselves around poles. I'm sure you can survive the year or two it takes to get to your open licence. They would treat exemptions on a case by case basis and you can't expect someone on the phone who you're asking about a case you put through months ago to know the full details of why your car was rejected, although it sucks that they didn't give you the reason at the time. If you're trying to get an exemption for a slow turbocharged car, i don't see why you couldn't find a decent NA car to substitute it with.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Twin T66
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 am
Posts: 1218
Location: North Sydney, NSW
Car: 1988 Nissan Silvia Ks
govich wrote:
1. buy a car without a turbo
2. live happily ever after
3. profit

Seriously, these laws are effective for the most part in reducing the number of fooly sick P platers in turbo jap cars wrapping themselves around poles. I'm sure you can survive the year or two it takes to get to your open licence. They would treat exemptions on a case by case basis and you can't expect someone on the phone who you're asking about a case you put through months ago to know the full details of why your car was rejected, although it sucks that they didn't give you the reason at the time. If you're trying to get an exemption for a slow turbocharged car, i don't see why you couldn't find a decent NA car to substitute it with.


You're missing the point.

I can almost grasp the logic behind the laws, but research has shown that in the year following the introduction of the restrictions, P-plater fatalities in NSW actually rose.

Further, there are plenty of cars on the list which are low powered, and are banned. Why?

My E30 323i has 120rwkw, and yes it is nimble enough, certainly faster than a stock CA18DET, and it only weighs 1050kg.

Each time I spoke to someone at the exemptions unit I gave them my application number as a reference, and they still couldn't give me any real feedback.

Lastly, I've endured over two years on these restrictions. As you can see in my signature, I still have nine months or so to go. The reason I want a turbocharged car is because I'm a big import fan. I'd love something like a Chaser, or an R32/34, but I realise that my driving skills probably aren't adequate to drive such a car at the moment.

The reason I would love something like a stock S13, is that they are cheap, relatively cheap to run, and parts are plentiful.

Edit: to clarify, it is not just restricted P-platers who are against the turbo restrictions. The NRMA opposed them, many motoring journalists opposed them, my parents and most parents I know opposed them too.


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 5:20 pm 
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T28
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Posts: 35
Car: ECR33
Yeah, i'm not really on the side of the law here, i think it's been put together by a bunch of people to who see turbocharger as a dirty word and there was no consultation with engineers or anybody with a clue. Banning cars by having workers at the RTA who have no idea making the decision is ridiculous. However it does have SOME effect, there are now far fewer P plate drivers driving turbo cars that were the actual reason for the laws coming in.

I work in a government agency at the moment (R&D engineer) and i chuckled a bit at your expectations with regards to them having a complete and accessible record of your previous car. Not because they shouldn't be able to provide it, but because i know what the system is like.. even in an engineering department, i know of only a handful of senior engineers who work 'hard', and the place is a big bunch of good ideas thrown together without thinking about how everything interacts..

Wait out those 9 months, second hand Japanese turbo cars are only getting cheaper and there's no point risking losing your licence and not being able to drive a turbo car for even longer..


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:40 am 
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T28
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:01 pm
Posts: 31
Car: 1984 Chrysler LeBaron
My biggest gripe with these laws is that as an "older" import driver, I find the market value of my car plummeting due to the lowered demand from P-plater Habibs' spending daddys' money :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:29 am 
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youre only just off your Ps ark, so what are you complaining about lol

and learn when to use an apostophe

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:02 pm 
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Twin T66
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 am
Posts: 1218
Location: North Sydney, NSW
Car: 1988 Nissan Silvia Ks
ZEi20T wrote:
youre only just off your Ps ark, so what are you complaining about lol

and learn when to use an apostophe


Is Reptar Ark? Shit, I'm behind the times...what's cracking man? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:49 pm 
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T25
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 4
Car: S13
Before I bought my car I looked up the exemptions thing on the RTA website. It says:

''A limited exemption from the prohibited vehicle condition may be granted if the principal family vehicle is a moderate-performance turbo/supercharged engine vehicle.''

So I bought my car thinking it would be all good because it's the only one that we have. But when I pick up the exemption form it says straight out that an exemption won't be granted simply because it's the only car in the family. Put the two together and both say different things. :-?

I haven't even heard of the Exemptions Unit otherwise I might have called them for more information. If the RTA hadn't been so misleading I might not have bought the car. (Lies.. I would have bought it anyway lol). :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:14 am 
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T88
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:34 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Picton
Car: kouki 14
yep i got denied

i said

the car was a present (streched the truth a little)

i go to drift days ect and nither me nor a family member has a car to tow it with, have a cams licence member of initial drift, closetspecialty mechanic is 40min away


my NA sil is going off the road for a extended period of time and there is now public transport in the area to get to work


unless its for work ect they wont let you have it off

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:43 am 
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T25

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 1:35 am
Posts: 1
Car: Lancia Beta
I'm glad to see someone else is as frustrated with these rule as I am!

Sure these rules are there for a reason, but how come every other bastard gets an exception?

Reading this article made me wonder: sure there are psychos on the road, but wtf was an 18 year old doing in a WRX? There's no way he could have bought the car before the rules came into effect, nor could it ever pass an exception, even as a family members car. I see so many WRX's, S13's, and Skylines on red P's on my way to work every day I can't possibly understand why they aren't all getting booked?

So what's the big loophole I don't know?

- Hugh

EDIT: It just occured to me that the armed assailants could be fundamentalist RTA enforcers...

The other thing that pisses me off is the number of legal but fast cars that I can't afford. Including:
Alfa 147GTA
VW Golf R32
Alfa GT 3.2
Lotus Elise
Cateram whatever (2.9s 0-100 lol)

I don't especially want to be a hoon on the roads; imo you can't really appreciate a quick car unless it's on a track or skidpan anyway. Bah.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:13 am 
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T28 Hybrid

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 83
Car: '97 180sx Type X
I hardly see how "really liking imports" is justification for exemption. If you bought it before the laws came in or shared a family vehicle for work related purposes it would probably be a different story, but in the end all you are is a kid who wants to own a turbo car for no other reason than to owner a turbo car, and that is where the problem lies.

Teenagers always want what adults say they cant have. Cigs, grog, and now turbo cars. I agree that it should be a power restriction rather than induction type, though I support the current laws. I dont want 18yo try hards trying to Gee me up at every set of lights.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:39 am 
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Twin T66
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 am
Posts: 1218
Location: North Sydney, NSW
Car: 1988 Nissan Silvia Ks
Varvs wrote:
I hardly see how "really liking imports" is justification for exemption. If you bought it before the laws came in or shared a family vehicle for work related purposes it would probably be a different story, but in the end all you are is a kid who wants to own a turbo car for no other reason than to owner a turbo car, and that is where the problem lies.

Teenagers always want what adults say they cant have. Cigs, grog, and now turbo cars. I agree that it should be a power restriction rather than induction type, though I support the current laws. I dont want 18yo try hards trying to Gee me up at every set of lights.


Incorrect, I saved since I was 13 to buy a turbo S13, and I was brutally grounded down to reality about 6 months before I got my licence - and financially I was just short of being able to buy one. Otherwise, I would have got it under the 'owned it before the laws came in' loophole.

That's a pretty rash generalisation you make. I don't smoke, I don't drink much, and I don't think its fair that we are banned from driving a 125kW turbo car over plenty of far, far quicker non-turbo examples.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:12 am 
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T28 Hybrid

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 83
Car: '97 180sx Type X
i want a silvia wrote:
Varvs wrote:
I hardly see how "really liking imports" is justification for exemption. If you bought it before the laws came in or shared a family vehicle for work related purposes it would probably be a different story, but in the end all you are is a kid who wants to own a turbo car for no other reason than to owner a turbo car, and that is where the problem lies.

Teenagers always want what adults say they cant have. Cigs, grog, and now turbo cars. I agree that it should be a power restriction rather than induction type, though I support the current laws. I dont want 18yo try hards trying to Gee me up at every set of lights.


Incorrect, I saved since I was 13 to buy a turbo S13, and I was brutally grounded down to reality about 6 months before I got my licence - and financially I was just short of being able to buy one. Otherwise, I would have got it under the 'owned it before the laws came in' loophole.

That's a pretty rash generalisation you make. I don't smoke, I don't drink much, and I don't think its fair that we are banned from driving a 125kW turbo car over plenty of far, far quicker non-turbo examples.


What is incorrect, exactly? you didnt need a turbo car, you just wanted one for the sake of wanting one. Let me clarify there is nothing wrong with that at all, however its not going to go down well with justification of why you should be exempt from the laws. you werent forced to drive your parents turbo car as your only method of transport, so I cant see how exemption applies to you. What makes your need to own a car you love more important than anyone elses?

I never said you smoke or drink, either. I said teenagers want what people say they cant have, and gave examples. Its part of being a teenager to question authority.

I can see why turbo cars were banned and not a straight P:W ban was brought in. 1) turbo cars are cheap compared to similarly powered/more powerful cars, 2) they behave differently to NA vehicles, 3) they are cheaper and easier to extract more power from than NA cars.

as i said, I dont really agree with the laws, but I dont have a problem with them. but then again im on my gold license, 22, and own a turbo car.


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:28 pm 
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Twin T66
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:42 am
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Location: North Sydney, NSW
Car: 1988 Nissan Silvia Ks
Varvs wrote:
as i said, I dont really agree with the laws, but I dont have a problem with them. but then again im on my gold license, 22, and own a turbo car.


Sums it up really.


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:02 pm 
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Twin T51
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:41 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Northern Beaches
Car: 200sx s15
Hmm... thats odd, I'm getting a turbo'd s15 (i'm 19, and on my green P's). It is going in the fathers name, he called up the RTA explaining the situation (he runs his own business, so he can be very persuasive.)

the chick said it will be fine, he just has to fill out the form and to bring it in for a quick approval (instead of handing it in and walking off, or posting). Unless she is shitting us, she sent an email to clarify his and dads phone call anyway. The other cars under the family are a twin turbo V6, or a 4 cylinder supercharger. the son drives the twin turbo v6 and mum and dad go to work in the supercharged car.

It also falls under public transport, as there are no busses in my area or near to get me too and from work.

I'll have limited hours to drive though, as im using it "to get too and from work" between 8am and 6pm, and it is partly used for work (as i have to drive to the bank). Boss has approved and signed off on the form for that too. Whenever i go out driving weekends, i always have someone with a full license in the car anyway...

I guess if you have ur family and work to back you up you can be in the all clear... Not too sure, but i sure as hell hope i don't have to go through the "exemption unit" if this is the case! sounds like they have no idea what they even do as a job.


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