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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:49 am 
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Takumi
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the figure usually getting around is ~$200, but I'm sure there would be plenty of little extras involved for most cars.
I haven't looked into it for Silvias (yet)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:02 am 
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Nothing wrong with running ethanol in your car, the Prime Minister runs it in his!!!

Did you see when he was asked if he was running his car on LPG, and he thought about it for a second and said it ran on ethanol.

He doesn't even open his own blody door, how the f*ck would he know what the driver puts in the tank!!!

Note to PM... the other 90% is oil John!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:04 pm 
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182Go wrote:
Nothing wrong with running ethanol in your car, the Prime Minister runs it in his!!!
Yeah but thats a commowhore and there lump of shit to begin with :D

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:56 pm 
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too_much_boost wrote:
I think you read it wrong. They are talking about making ethanol based fuels make up a certain % of market share by 2008


Any links for the news article? The one that Nismodified provided is a bit ambiguous as to whether its across the board, or just a bit more present in the marketplace.

As for what ethanol-blended fuels does to engines etc not designed for them:

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Two words : rotting seals. And I'm not talking about dead sealife. E85 is pretty acidic, and stuffing it in your regular petrol-engined car will do no end of damage to it. Apart from the spark timing and the fuel-air ratio being totally different, E85 has a whopping 105 octane rating to deal with the pre-igntion problems of having 30% more fuel in the fuel-air mix during combustion. The seals and gaskets in FFVs are designed to withstand the acidic deposits that E85 generates during combustion.

Generally speaking, FFVs [Flexible Fuel vehicles, i.e. ones that can run ethanol-blended fuels) are manufactured to eliminate all bare aluminium, rubber and magnesium parts - all items which E85 is known to rot, and all items which a normal engine has by the bucketload. Another problem with E85 is that it's electrically conductive. Regular petrol fuel pumps aren't really designed to work with a conductive fuel, so using E85 with one could result in a fuel fire where the petrol is not only the fuel for the fire, but the electrical path for the spark. FFV fuel lines aren't made of rubber, but typically stainless steel lined with plastic.


Source

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:26 pm 
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Two words : rotting seals. And I'm not talking about dead sealife. E85 is pretty acidic, and stuffing it in your regular petrol-engined car will do no end of damage to it. Apart from the spark timing and the fuel-air ratio being totally different, E85 has a whopping 105 octane rating to deal with the pre-igntion problems of having 30% more fuel in the fuel-air mix during combustion. The seals and gaskets in FFVs are designed to withstand the acidic deposits that E85 generates during combustion.

Generally speaking, FFVs [Flexible Fuel vehicles, i.e. ones that can run ethanol-blended fuels) are manufactured to eliminate all bare aluminium, rubber and magnesium parts - all items which E85 is known to rot, and all items which a normal engine has by the bucketload. Another problem with E85 is that it's electrically conductive. Regular petrol fuel pumps aren't really designed to work with a conductive fuel, so using E85 with one could result in a fuel fire where the petrol is not only the fuel for the fire, but the electrical path for the spark. FFV fuel lines aren't made of rubber, but typically stainless steel lined with plastic.
Fuck me!!!!!

Where fucked.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:30 am 
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That does specifically point to E85, not E5-E10 fuels.....but I'd say you're just talking a matter of time with less ethanol rather than it not occurring at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:32 am 
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that's based on E85,which IIRC,is an 85% ethanol mix. the govt. wants E10 (10%) to be the new std fuel,and they claim it's not anything to be concerned about.

personally,I see ANY percentage of a corrosive material being regularly put into contact with components that aren't designed for it to be a bad move.
if I was a conspiracy nut-job I'd say that besides lining the PM's back pocket,this is just another plan for getting older cars off of the road,and forcing us to be happy little consumers,and buy new,local product that's able to run on this rubbish.
buy a commodore,and be happy with your quiet,subsistence lifestyle.


Justin...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:51 pm 
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fergo308 wrote:
if I was a conspiracy nut-job I'd say that besides lining the PM's back pocket,this is just another plan for getting older cars off of the road,and forcing us to be happy little consumers,and buy new,local product that's able to run on this rubbish.
buy a commodore,and be happy with your quiet,subsistence lifestyle.


Justin...


the libs have also been getting party "donations" from one of johnys buddies, who is the biggest producer of cane in QLD, hes of course pushing for ethanol based petrol to increase his local market, and my god would that be a huge increase!

would be cool if we could run 100% methanol fuel and it was cheap 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:59 pm 
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Isn't methanol carsnegenic?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:38 pm 
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afaik its not carcinogenic. its part of the alcohol group of chemicals, being the one with the shortest carbon chain, and if memory serves me right ethanol is the second smallest in the group. ie they are very similar chemicals


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:51 pm 
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Ethanol is the same alcohol you find in booze. In Brazil's case, they ferment it from sugar cane (something Australia also has plenty of). If bogans start their WB utes to run ethanol blended fuels, then they can truly call them "rum pigs".

Methanol is commonly used in anti-freeze. Its poisonous, and has a tendency to make people go blind if injested.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:59 pm 
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mokompri wrote:
afaik its not carcinogenic. its part of the alcohol group of chemicals


One for Car, one for Driver (no officer, no drinks tonight, just a splash of Ethanol)..


I was told by a fuel eningeer that if you have 5% ethanol, you can also have 5% water in that mix, because ethanol being an alcohol absorbs water, so you watch dodgey shonky fucking cheap cunt servos start mixing water with their fuels to make the profit margin increase.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:19 pm 
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Scathing wrote:
Methanol is commonly used in anti-freeze. Its poisonous, and has a tendency to make people go blind if injested.


thats right, everyone should know what methylated spirits are, it comprises around 98%+ ethanol and the rest is methanol, added in so that you cant get pissed off it :P

ethanol is the only chemical in the alcohol group that humans can digest

and yeah with ethanol added, fuel can go 'off' easier, as it becomes more hydroscopic & absorbs water more readily.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:12 pm 
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fergo308 wrote:
that's based on E85,which IIRC,is an 85% ethanol mix. the govt. wants E10 (10%) to be the new std fuel,and they claim it's not anything to be concerned about.
Yeb the goverment is fucked.

fergo308 wrote:
personally,I see ANY percentage of a corrosive material being regularly put into contact with components that aren't designed for it to be a bad move.
I agree with you there.

fergo308 wrote:
if I was a conspiracy nut-job I'd say that besides lining the PM's back pocket,this is just another plan for getting older cars off of the road,and forcing us to be happy little consumers,and buy new,local product that's able to run on this rubbish.
buy a commodore,and be happy with your quiet,subsistence lifestyle.
That sounds like just the thing there trying too do :( :evil:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:06 pm 
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mokompri wrote:
thats right, everyone should know what methylated spirits are, it comprises around 98%+ ethanol and the rest is methanol, added in so that you cant get pissed off it :P

ethanol is the only chemical in the alcohol group that humans can digest


It makes you go blind for sure, but I'm also pretty sure you can get pissed off any alcohol, including methanol and (surprise surprise) petrol (which is mostly decanol iirc).

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