Silvia Club of NSW

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:27 am 
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T28

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Car: evo'd gsr lancer
was driving through earlwood two weeks ago and i hit a steep climb so naturally i dropped it back to third and guned it. got to the top and saw a copper on his motor bike on the side of the road and i was coming upto traffic so i hit the breaks.
next minute copper pulls me over and asks me to estimate my speed so i say 55kms/hr and he says that because he's trained to estimate speed he could get me for doing 100kms/hr even without a radar
then (probly cause he didnt have a radar and COULDNT get me for speeding) he proceeds to defect my car. 17' rims, too low he thinks without even getting under and measuring, faulty brake light (thats fair enough), no air filter (fair enough too), bonnet pins, and battery relocated in boot, aftermarket intercooler.
he then hands me a defect sheet with 7 problems to fix and also gives me 5 defect fines of $78 each. telling me that to not get defected for these things again i need to get everything on the car engineered.
my beef is this, when a person goes into a shop to buy a car accessory such as a towbar or bullbar, why is it that they dont have to get their car engineered?
also, cop cars have sirens on the top of them, computers inside them and lights on the front number plate so wouldnt this mean that because they are not standard they would have to be engineered too???
i am taking three of the fines to court, 17' rims, aftermarket intercooler and the too low one and this will be my arguement.
just wanna know if anyone has had any experience with fighting these fines in court and what happened.
makes me soo mad to think that i had to spend $500 on an engineers report and have my car off the road this whole time just cause the cop was a wanker.
oh and this happened the thursday night before the long weekend and he gave me 2 days to clear the defects, good friday and easter saturday... gotta love those coppas

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:23 am 
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Chances are you will get thrown out of court :P

The rims could well be illegal if the track etc is out. also the intercooler can effect the structural integrity if the front and could also be illegal,as for the to low is it???

The tow bars etc people buy in shops are approved to be fitted to the vehicle they are designed for and are certified before being sold, the air filters we buy from auto barn are not normally approved.

Your better off proving the car is legal if you can and then writting to the infringement beauro with the proof and telling them that you have been fined for something that you should not have been fined for.
I have just been through this, done for an exhaust that was actually legal, I got a cert from 2 exhaust shops and sent it away with a check for fine ammount and a letter not wingeing but simply asking the question why. I got the check back yesterday and a reply saying sorry for the inconveniance.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:42 am 
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T28

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understand what your saying mate
the reason i put in about the towbarsand bullbars is cause my old man owns a shop where they fit these and he is fighting it with me so it shouldnt get thrown out of court (hopefully)
the car was not too low, the front bar was a good cm above the legal height however the tires were only on 20psi at the time too which when we pumped them up the next day saw a dramatic difference in height
we are writting a letter to the police integrity commission cause my dad thinks that they have tried to de-fraud me by issuing me with the intercooler, rim and lowered defects
but the thing that gets me is that they can even defect you if you dont have the 'h' pattern on your gear knob, did you know that?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:45 am 
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evo15m wrote:
but the thing that gets me is that they can even defect you if you dont have the 'h' pattern on your gear knob, did you know that?


That's why Nismo gearknobs,and others too probably,come with the H pattern on a sticker that you are supposed to stick next to the knob somewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:41 pm 
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The Cops and the Judge work under the same boss, so I doubt that you'll win.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:48 pm 
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evo15m wrote:
also, cop cars have sirens on the top of them, computers inside them and lights on the front number plate so wouldnt this mean that because they are not standard they would have to be engineered too???


Yes, it does.

And yes, they are. Holden and Ford BTOs the cars the cops use, and the gear that isn't fitted by the OEM is fitted by a trained and certified mechanic, which are checked before put into active duty.


No, they probably don't carry their engineering certs around with them but the only mods on the car are done before its road registered, so they know its engineered, and you don't get individual cops modifying vehicles in their car pool, which they don't own but would have to pay out-of-pocket for the mods. Would you pay your own cash to modify a company car that isn't assigned to you, and so you might not always get to drive? I doubt the cops would either.

To put it as an analogy, if you had to get your car registered after your mods were done and they were engineered, and it was physically impossible for you to modify your car after rego, then you wouldn't need to carry the certs around either.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:07 pm 
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evo15m wrote:
then (probly cause he didnt have a radar and COULDNT get me for speeding) he proceeds to defect my car. 17' rims, too low he thinks without even getting under and measuring, faulty brake light (thats fair enough), no air filter (fair enough too), bonnet pins, and battery relocated in boot, aftermarket intercooler.

makes me soo mad to think that i had to spend $500 on an engineers report and have my car off the road this whole time just cause the cop was a wanker.


The cops are trained to estimate speeding by eye. I once had a cop pick my speed accurate to 5km/hr as I approached a RBT. And they can book you for speeding for an estimated speed, and if you take it to court its your word against a qualified law enforcement agent. Good luck.

Considering you're in third and gunning it, unless one of your mods is a super short gearbox I doubt you're doing anywhere near the speed limit. Any goon can tell if a car's doing well over 60km/hr (even if they can't give you an exact speed), at which point if he didn't book you for speeding he could hit you up for dangerous driving instead.


So your car did have defects, and the law enforcement official's a wanker for doing his job?

How wide are your 17's? What's the dimensions of the stock wheels?

Even if he didn't defect you for the rims and ride height, you freely admit that he's got you on your lack of filter and brake light. Since you're getting defected anyway, and you have to visit the RTA, he may as well hit you up for other stuff that he's not sure about.

It would have been worse if you didn't have anything definitely illegal in your car, and he hit you up with a notice anyway. Regardless of whether he defected you for your rims or ride height or not, you still have to get the car checked out anyway.


Just remember that cops don't defect your car, at which point it loses its rego. They issue you with a notice that they suspect its defective and you need to prove otherwise. If you fail to do so within the time period, then its like getting busted for any other crime and not showing up to court for the hearing.

Its only when the RTA flunks your car that your car is considered defective and not permitted to drive on the road.

At any rate, he probably wasn't that far off the mark on your speed (which he didn't hit you up for). He wasn't wrong that there were defectable things on your car, and while getting you for the glaring ones he mentioned other stuff he saw which could be cleared at the same time, and didn't fine you for all of them.

Edited by mayhem

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:40 pm 
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Scathing is right, you might as well just get the blue slip and be done with it.

They have no de-fauded you by doing there job, you just need to get over it and make the car legal.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:00 pm 
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T28

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Scathing wrote:
evo15m wrote:
also, cop cars have sirens on the top of them, computers inside them and lights on the front number plate so wouldnt this mean that because they are not standard they would have to be engineered too???


Yes, it does.

And yes, they are. Holden and Ford BTOs the cars the cops use, and the gear that isn't fitted by the OEM is fitted by a trained and certified mechanic, which are checked before put into active duty.


No, they probably don't carry their engineering certs around with them but the only mods on the car are done before its road registered, so they know its engineered, and you don't get individual cops modifying vehicles in their car pool, which they don't own but would have to pay out-of-pocket for the mods. Would you pay your own cash to modify a company car that isn't assigned to you, and so you might not always get to drive? I doubt the cops would either.

To put it as an analogy, if you had to get your car registered after your mods were done and they were engineered, and it was physically impossible for you to modify your car after rego, then you wouldn't need to carry the certs around either.


understand what your saying mate however i know from experience cause my dads company acctually invented the special front number plate bar that the cops use on their cars and they fitted them too while they were registered

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:07 pm 
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T28

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Scathing wrote:
evo15m wrote:
then (probly cause he didnt have a radar and COULDNT get me for speeding) he proceeds to defect my car. 17' rims, too low he thinks without even getting under and measuring, faulty brake light (thats fair enough), no air filter (fair enough too), bonnet pins, and battery relocated in boot, aftermarket intercooler.

makes me soo mad to think that i had to spend $500 on an engineers report and have my car off the road this whole time just cause the cop was a wanker.


The cops are trained to estimate speeding by eye. I once had a cop pick my speed accurate to 5km/hr as I approached a RBT. And they can book you for speeding for an estimated speed, and if you take it to court its your word against a qualified law enforcement agent. Good luck.

Considering you're in third and gunning it, unless one of your mods is a super short gearbox I doubt you're doing anywhere near the speed limit. Any goon can tell if a car's doing well over 60km/hr (even if they can't give you an exact speed), at which point if he didn't book you for speeding he could hit you up for dangerous driving instead.


So your car did have defects, and the law enforcement official's a wanker for doing his job?

How wide are your 17's? What's the dimensions of the stock wheels?

Even if he didn't defect you for the rims and ride height, you freely admit that he's got you on your lack of filter and brake light. Since you're getting defected anyway, and you have to visit the RTA, he may as well hit you up for other stuff that he's not sure about.

It would have been worse if you didn't have anything definitely illegal in your car, and he hit you up with a notice anyway. Regardless of whether he defected you for your rims or ride height or not, you still have to get the car checked out anyway.


Just remember that cops don't defect your car, at which point it loses its rego. They issue you with a notice that they suspect its defective and you need to prove otherwise. If you fail to do so within the time period, then its like getting busted for any other crime and not showing up to court for the hearing.

Its only when the RTA flunks your car that your car is considered defective and not permitted to drive on the road.


At any rate, he probably wasn't that far off the mark on your speed (which he didn't hit you up for). He wasn't wrong that there were defectable things on your car, and while getting you for the glaring ones he mentioned other stuff he saw which could be cleared at the same time, and didn't fine you for all of them.


for starters he didnt get me for the width of the 17's, he got me cause they rnt standard height wheels on the car
and dont come into my thread and call me a wanker just because you think you know what your talking about, and if you do know then thats great, leave your opinion here as i asked in the first thread and ill read it, take it on board and even thank you for it but this is a bitching thread right? do you go around to every other topic on this thread calling them wankers if you do not agree with them?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:18 pm 
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no offence, but if you didnt have anything illegal on your car, you would have nothing to worry about.

IF you car IS legal height, and the wheels are correct etc, then im behind you with contesting it in court. But as for the cop being an asshole; from what i have experienced, they generally treat you the same way you are treating them. Fair enough this is not correct 100% of the time.

Good luck with everything

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:46 pm 
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Ive said it before if your car is legal you have no need to go to court, get the proof ie an engineers cert, and write a letter, No use writting to any police authority they can't help you its now in the infringement beuro's hands so write to them.

By your title id guess you are a P plater as the cops aren't filth they are doing there job. Sorry but im fully with scathing on this one you are wasting everyones time, if your dad is that damn good should he not know the law,

On the police cars being illegal again scathing is right, however in my personal oppinion police vechicles and any other emmergency vehicle for that matter should be excempt from design rules that limit there capabilities. If they need something fitted screw the rules they should have it fitted, im paying taxes so they can uphold the law and if they need to break the rules to uphold them so be it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:15 pm 
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T28

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dude the reason the law is there is to protect us but you have to remember that the police are not higher than ordinary people.
i speak to every cop the same, i didnt question him at the time at all, i took the defect and walked away and if my car is illegal for the defects then thats fine and ill wear it but i've had the car engineered since and the guy went over the WHOLE car and found those three defects to be legal so...
oh and im not a 'p' plater just hate cops after my dad had some bad run ins with them
if you think that all i have to do to not pay these fines then ill try it however if it doesnt work then its going to court and win or lose i'd rather THEM set me straight about the law
keep the input coming but maybe someone who has gone to court over this???

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:32 pm 
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I bet it sucks to get 5 fines, 1 for each defect. Sounds unfair.

I dont know if its worth the hassle of going to court, sounds like your chances of winning arent very high at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:45 pm 
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seems you think your dad is god which is cool but doesn't mean he knows everything. cops are good people there are 3 in my street and i know them all. Police are higher than everyone else when they are in uniform how do you decide they are not??

Put into perspective mate, your house gets done over or something else hapens who do you call the cops yeah???

Im not saying don't pay the fine read my damn post and you will see what I did which is what i was told to do by an officer.

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i'd rather THEM set me straight about the law
keep the input coming but maybe someone who has gone to court over this???

why the fuck did you post on here for???
seems you are already decided that we know nothing about the law, without even knowing who we actually are or what we do for a living.

Ive been to court not only for my own car but also customers vehicles, i tried offering my advise.

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