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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:34 pm 
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T51 Hybrid

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:51 pm
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Location: Sydney
Car: S13 Silvia
Hi Guys,

Have a problem with the car and hoping some of you may have some ideas.

CABS (Martin) from ns.com posted for me over there but I thought there may be a few ideas here as well.

This is what Martin has posted;

Went out to look at a mates car running at the creek today. He was having issues with the car all day which I think might be a mixture of problems which helps confuse things.

Managed to burst the inlet pipe to the radiator not just slightly but virtually in half. I put this down to a pressure cap that was not working at all and wouldnt bleed any pressure out of the system when needed. But I'd be interested to see what others think about this please. On a previous occasion it has blown out a row the aftermarket radiator without actually busting it. (wow)

He then replaced the stock cap with a 1.3bar greddy item that is relatively new and was on hand and threw in a new radiator hose. The coolant system would then pump the overflow bottle full of coolant and overflow in a matter of a few laps. I put this down to maybe a blown head gasket but only into one of the water gallerys in the block that is pressurising the cooling system much higher than it should be?

Only thing is that there is no milky oil to speak of but that may not be an issue if its only to the water gallery. There is also no steam or traces of coolant coming out the exhaust. The car still makes good power and pulls hard aswell. Every time the temps started to climb we'd have to come in drain the overflow and top the radiator back up again.

Does my diagnosis sound probable?
Why is there no water out the exhaust if that is right?
Will a leak down test settle this for sure?

Thanks in advance guys,

This is some info from me from that thread

Thanks for posting this Martin.

Guys, the car in question is mine.

A bit of further information - the car on the dyno did not overheat. Temp was around 76 on the dyno maximum! Out on the track with the standard cap it did not overheat, however as Martin stated the top radiator hose blew apart in a big way.

Fitted a Greddy 1.3 bar cap and another hose and the car was fine for a few laps then all the water/coolant would go to the overflow but would not return causing temps to rise after a few laps forcing me to come in. We would take the radiator cap off and lift the overflow bottle, all the water would then return back to the radiator. In addition the radiator would take even more water. The water is not returning from the overflow when the car is driving.

The overflow bottle has been changed and sits in a lower position then before. However it has always had this problem even with the standard overflow in the standard position.

Another thing I didnt explain to Martin, on start-up sometimes the car would blow out white/blue smoke. It would do this until the car has heated up then it would go away. It doesnt do it all the time, some days it might blow smoke other days not a thing. Water does come out of the exhaust on start up sometimes, as in spatters it out but I attributed this to condensation in the exhaust. Could this be something else?

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.


Last edited by SRS13 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:01 pm 
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I think your first issue was probably a dud cap, though the pressure needed to pop a good condition hose is pretty huge so it would have to be seized up pretty good to hold that pressure.

Sounds like you may have done a head gasket as a result. The coolant not returning as the engine cools is a sign of a leak somewhere or a faulty return on the cap, and obviously pushing it all out to the point of overheating in the first place points to the air getting in being pressurised to a level higher than the 1.3 bar relief of the system.

Get a leak down done to confirm, or at the very least a pressure test of the cooling system.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Takumi
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yep, I think most of the issue is due to the radiator's cap fitting not being very good.
The standard cap obviously locked in and didn't release at the normal .9 bar.

The Greddy 1.3 bar cap is releasing, but maybe also not at the right pressure.

My theory is either that it's the head gasket (hopefully not!) or the radiator cap is not sealing against the top of the fitting, so it lets water out and sucks air back instead of sucking the water back from the overflow bottle.

It seems unlikely that this could be happening without leaking coolant around the radiator cap, but stranger things have happened!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:11 pm 
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T51 Hybrid

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Car: S13 Silvia
Dumhed did a compression test and all the cylinders were equal in value. Car makes good power on the dyno (248rwk at 17psi), no milky stuff in the cap etc

Despite the above most are saying it sounds more and more like a head gasket but I do not want to go ahead and get this done and realise it is something else.

I might change the radiator and cap and see how that goes. The radiator is actually expanded due to the pressure so would be good for piece of mind to just change it and the cap.

As a basic test, do any of those headgasket sealers actually work? Should I try one of those and see if it makes a difference? Or are they a load of hogwash and may cause more damage then good?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:04 am 
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they do work, but I don't think they'd stand up to the sort of loads your engine has on it.
Also they'll fill the engine with gunk that should really be cleaned out if the head gasket is replaced later.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:15 am 
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anyone think of the thermostat?? might not be opening far enough and causing a blockage and buiding up pressure??

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:14 pm 
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nah it can't cause an overall pressure buildup, except by causing excess overheating, but the radiator cap should still vent that.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:26 am 
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what if it was faulty like he said it might be?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:33 am 
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the radiator cap is definitely not venting, which is the main problem.

It's possible that the thermostat was causing overheating to begin with, but this problem happened after installing the radiator - and its cap fitting is not 100% compatible with the standard radiator caps.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:17 pm 
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have u check if the radiator is clogged or blocked or is restricting flow
are you getting bubbles in the radiator
water in your oil
is the some thing in the system blocking i,e a socket or bolt
have you checked the thermostat
hows the water pump

if in doubt change everything

some ideas you may not have thought of

but if its the inlet pipe that burst and the cap i'm thinking there is a blockage between the radiator and water pump


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:57 pm 
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T51 Hybrid

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:51 pm
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Car: S13 Silvia
Called Natrad for some advice.

Over the phone one guy diagnosed it as a head gasket issue whilst their mechanic said it was the cap.

So I went down and they checked the car out.

Did the head gasket dye test and no colour change :P They even did it again at the end to make sure but no change. So very happy that it seems to be no leaks in the head gasket.

They grabbed the Greddy radiator cap and pressure tested that. EPIC FAIL. Came out that the cap does not hold any pressure at all and was faulty.

They grabbed a 1.1 bar cap and tested it in front of me and it was clear that the Greddy was well and truly stuffed.

They were shocked at the state of the radiator ie how much pressure built up to expand the core. But the radiator was flowing water smoothly with no apparent blockages or leaks.

So we changed the cap and left it at that.

They are fairly sure that should solve the problem.

Thanks for everyone's input!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:26 am 
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Nismo radiator cap in Japan at an auto store cost me $20 AU.


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