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Alternative Forced Induction...Would it work???
https://forum.silviansw.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25927		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  oRiCLe [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative Forced Induction...Would it work???
Okay...lol i was just discussing turbo setups with a mate, and we somehow got sidetracked onto more of a theoretical "would it work" topic....

So its only a theory but i dont see theoretically why it wouldnt work as such...

So persay your normal turbo car has the turbo connected to the exhaust gas which spins the wheels on the turbo causing +ve pressure being sent through the intake...

Lets change that for a second and say that you had a turbo, not connected to the exhaust...so you just had the compressor housing..

Then say you (for whatever reason) had your average air compressor you normally use to pump up your tyres or drive the rattle gun in the boot...and you had that with a nozzle that pointed directly at the turbine impeller on the exhaust housing...so that when you fired air out of the compressor it would spin the compressor wheel...

Now in theory this would cause the wheels to spin on the turbo and then in turn suck more air...either from the compressed air being blown into the engine or the wheel sucking air because its spinning...but it would then not be relative as such to the engine RPM...

so then your sitting at the lights or on the start of the drag strip and you start the flow of compressed air into the turbo...all of a sudden the engine is making boost, as you accelerate, there is the air going into the engine plus the compression of the air being pushed in from the compressed air spinning the exhaust housing and the spinning turbine sucking more air...

I do realise that the compressor would eventually run out of air etc, but more for a conceptual idea, and a method of boosting or even pre-spooling a larger turbo for launch etc or in between gears...

Dunno, so yeah thought i would open it to discussion ...lets call it "compressor-charging" lol...see if i can get some more theories and opinions for this THEORETICAL idea (hear that 182GO :P theoretical)

so sort of like this but without the revving... http://youtube.com/watch?v=CeC7Vd4CR0g
Author:  Nismodified [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
got anti-lag?
Author:  oRiCLe [ Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
basically but not really coz its not exactally connected to the engine anymore...

anti-lag is (in a basic form) advancing the timing ridiculously, pumping fuel and making the fuel backfire out the open exhaust valve so that it shoots bursts of pressure onto the exhaust wheel keeping the turbo spooled...
Author:  DumHed [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
the problem is finding and air compressor that can flow as much air as a ~200kw engine, which is what's needed to spin the turbo up :)
Author:  oRiCLe [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:12 am ]
Post subject: 
hmm...if you were force feeding a small exhaust wheel with a larger compressor wheel with a tapered nozzle off the compressor to accelerate the air flow maybe?
Author:  DumHed [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm sure you could get some boost out of it (especially if you used CO2 instead of air to drive it), but as soon as you're actually running at full revs the "turbo" will just be a restriction.
Author:  ZEi250t [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:29 am ]
Post subject: 
i think you would be better off with one of those electric turbos. its like a compressor being driven by a motor instead of exhaust gas or compressed air like you want to do.
Author:  Busky2k [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Much like this?

Image

:lol:
Author:  DumHed [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:07 am ]
Post subject: 
I made an electric turbo using a pretty powerful 20,000rpm motor and the compressor side of a turbo.
It makes 0.5psi (static) :P
Author:  ZEi250t [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
thats probably enough for an NA car with no mods lol
Author:  182Go [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
ZEi20T wrote:
i think you would be better off with one of those electric turbos. its like a compressor being driven by a motor instead of exhaust gas or compressed air like you want to do.


I think this would be probably more feasable then those electric superchargers.

Oricle: You could maybe control the air outlet something like a NOS solenoid???
The only draw back to air is the mechanical loss in converting it to drive force. I think the electric turbo like Zei is talking about would be more practical.
Author:  badhairdave [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rather than bang on I'll keep it short:

No. To make the turbine suffiently small that the faily low output from the compressor would spin it, you would remove any chance it has of spinning up a regular size compressor (no torque) in any sort of reasonable time. Change gear, wait half an hour for it to spin up. Second issue, again torque related; I'm sure it could free spin the compressor, I doubt very much that it could spin the compressor with enough force to generate positive pressure.
Author:  Fester [ Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've heard the following referred to as "hypercharging", but perhaps "dumhed-charging" would be more appropriate given some of his nefarious experiments...

The general idea is that rather than run the hot side of the turbo off the waste exhaust from the main engine, you run the the turbo as a seperate gas turbine engine, with its own fuel system, ignition and engine management. The turbo compressor output is still used to force-feed the main engine. You should be able to make as much boost as the turbo will put up with from idle to redline. I believe it cooks turbos pretty quickly though.
Author:  DumHed [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:10 am ]
Post subject: 
that's the ultimate anti lag :)

You'd need just the right turbo to make it work, but it could certainly be done.
The fuel economy would be incredibly bad though!
Author:  badhairdave [ Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Isn't it the compressor that pumps the air into the combustion chambers on the dumjets?
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